Radio Interview – ABC Radio National Breakfast

The Hon Michelle Rowland MP

E&OE

Subjects: National Gun Buyback Scheme; Donald Trump; Middle East Conflict; Royal Commission; Solicitor-General.

MELISSA CLARKE, HOST: The Federal Government announced a national gun buyback scheme to facilitate gun reforms agreed to by the states and territories in the wake of the Bondi terror attack. The reforms included reducing the number of guns a single licence holder can own and making it harder to secure a gun licence in Australia. But despite an April 1 deadline, only three states and the ACT have signed up to the buyback scheme. Michelle Rowland is the Federal Attorney-General and she's in the studio with me this morning. Welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

MICHELLE ROWLAND, ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Good morning.

CLARKE: Before we get onto the buyback scheme and a few other issues, we have had some comments from Donald Trump overnight. He's expanding his threats against Iran to include attacking all power plants and bridges as he tries to convince Iran to open the Strait of Hormuz. What do you make of those comments?

ROWLAND: Well, I've seen those reports, and Australia's position continues to be that we call for an urgent de-escalation of this conflict. Australians and innocent people right around the world and in the region are being impacted by events that they didn't cause, but it is having lasting impacts, it's having impacts on our supply chains and causing real anxiety for Australians.

CLARKE: At a prima facie case, the idea of attacking civilian infrastructure would be a war crime. Is that a concern that you or anyone in the Federal Government has expressed directly to the US?

ROWLAND: Well, again, obviously, we can only go on the reports that we have seen in regards to the United States actions and their words in this regard. However, what I can say is that Australia takes its international law obligations very seriously. We're well aware of them and we are not taking offensive action in this conflict. We have taken some defensive action with our surveillance aircraft in response to a request from the UAE as your listeners will know.

CLARKE: Is there a role for Australia to publicly condemn or discourage or try to dissuade the US from making comments that are as serious as attacking civilian infrastructure?

ROWLAND: Well, again, I think it is a matter of fact that this is not the first time that we have heard President Trump make similar comments. So, I think the best thing we can do as a Government is to continue our calls for de-escalation. We continue also to mitigate the circumstances we find ourselves in at the end of supply chains, again, by engaging with regional partners to ensure that we have fuel supplies secured now until May. I think ultimately the United States will need to answer for itself. What we can do as a Government, recognising how important the alliance continues to be, and I should stress that to your listeners the alliance continues to remain vitally important is to again call for, as I said, that de-escalation.

CLARKE: The alliance being important is one thing. The fact that the President has made comments like this before is another. Doesn't that still require continued pressure from Australia to discourage countries from taking actions that would constitute war crimes if they were followed through on?

ROWLAND: Well, again, I would say that there are other mechanisms in which such discussions are had. Not all of them are in public, but again, Australians can be assured that this government is well aware of our international obligations and we abide by them.

CLARKE: I want to turn back to the gun buyback scheme that we mentioned at the beginning there. I know the Government wanted all states and territories to agree to this by the start of April. Why haven't you been able to convince some of the states who haven't wanted to participate or have had issues with how it's been structured? How come you haven't been able to convince them to come on board?

ROWLAND: Well, I think, firstly, this has been an agreement of National Cabinet and that needs to be recognised. In terms of the Commonwealth explaining its position, our position is clear. There are more guns in Australia today than there were at the time of the Port Arthur massacre and that is an unsustainable situation. You ran through some of the changes as a result of these reforms and I think all of your listeners would agree that they are sensible. This is a package of reform.

CLARKE: Yet, some states and territories don't want to proceed

ROWLAND: It is for them to explain to their constituency why that is the case. But again, we brought these forward as a response to the terrible events that we saw in December in Bondi. We didn't have the support of the opposition to get this legislation through the Parliament, but the fact remains that we will continue to prosecute this case through our National Cabinet processes. The government's committed to it.

CLARKE: Can it proceed with only some states and territories on board?

ROWLAND: Well, again, this is supposed to be a national buyback scheme, so by its very name.

CLARKE: It can’t work unless everyone agrees.

ROWLAND: They should recognise that.

CLARKE: When it comes to the Royal Commission into the Bondi terrorist attacks, do you have any regrets about absorbing the Richardson review into the Royal Commission now that Dennis Richardson has bowed out?

ROWLAND: Look, I think it's important for your listeners to appreciate that Mr. Richardson's work will continue and he's set up an excellent team. It is due to have that interim report by the end of this month. It is on track.

CLARKE: But that interim report won't have security and intelligence findings?

ROWLAND: Well, again, I don't think we should pre-empt what that's going to contain.

CLARKE: Well, Virginia Bell herself said it was unlikely that it would.

ROWLAND: This is independent. I won't attempt to read her mind on that. But I think that the work that Dennis Richardson did, that he set up and his role in advising the government to get to that point was absolutely crucial, and we thank him for his service in that regard. But again, the independence of the Royal Commission is paramount. It will provide that report and I think it is universally accepted now that Virginia Bell is eminently qualified to undertake this task, and we will let her do that.

CLARKE: The question not so much to Virginia Bell's ability or competence in doing the task, but around the timing. The Government was clear when it commissioned the Richardson review, that the rationale for doing that was to be able to get a quick answer about where there might potentially have been issues with security arrangements and intelligence arrangements. Both Dennis Richardson, as he departed, made it clear that one of his key concerns was that having been absorbed into the Royal Commission, there wasn't going to be findings on that in the interim. So, haven't we got a problem when the objective of the Government was to get quick and efficient answers and now there's not going to be?

ROWLAND: Well, I think there's two things there. Firstly, as you know, the Government decided to establish the Royal Commission after that Richardson review was announced. The most practical course that we determined at that time was, yes, we did want this review to proceed, but we did also have a Royal Commission going on at the same time. There are issues of being able to acquire information, different rules around that. We wanted to make sure that there was consistency with that. So, I think that overall we will have, I think, a very effective Royal Commission. As to the findings of this interim report, I think that it will provide a sound basis for precisely the objectives that we wanted in this regard.

CLARKE: If we look at where the Government was in the aftermath of the Bondi terrorist attack, the two key initiatives that were put forward were the gun buyback and the Richardson review. The gun buyback is stalling because some of the states and territories don't want to come on board. The security investigation is now going to not really be given in full findings until the end of the year going by all indications we've had from the Royal Commission. Is that a failure of the Government to deliver on those two promises that were made immediately after Bondi?

ROWLAND: Well, look, I think we should step back a moment and just remember that we're dealing with tragic events that happened some four months ago. Due to various circumstances, you know, people have made decisions, Dennis Richardson has made a personal decision to no longer participate, that is respected by the Government. We thank him for his service. We are where we are in terms of the gun buyback scheme. It's up for the States and Territories and the Royal Commission is proceeding as it should. It's doing that independently. So, I don't think your listeners should be in any doubt that these two streams of work are being undertaken. I think with the benefit of - this was a tragedy that occurred four months ago - we acted rapidly on that, and I think we should let those run its course before we come to conclusions about the veracity. We should be prepared to examine all the findings that have happened in the Royal Commission, but also in the security review.

CLARKE: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast, where my guest this morning is the Federal Attorney-General, Michelle Rowland. Now, you've announced yesterday the next Federal Solicitor-General will be Dr. Ruth Higgins. She's the first woman to be appointed to the position. What can you tell me about the significance of that?

ROWLAND: It is significant, because, as you say, there haven't been many in our history, and certainly she's the first woman to be holding this post. Her appointment has been well received right across the legal profession. She's someone who is a fierce advocate. She has a prodigious legal mind. She'll be advising the government not only in terms of representation in cases before the High Court and the Federal Court, but she'll also be ensuring that what we do as a Government not only complies with the Constitution, but also the rule of law. I think for your listeners, too, this is, while the Solicitor-General is known as the second law officer, I'm known as the first law officer. It's actually the first time in Australia's history where both those posts are held by women at the same time. I think that that speaks to, I think, the quality of the candidate that Dr. Higgins is, and I wish her very well. I know she'll deliver for Australians.

CLARKE: All right, Michelle Rowland, thank you very much for joining me in the studio this morning. Thank you.

ROWLAND: Pleasure.

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