Radio interview – ABC Radio AM

E&OE

Subjects: Freedom of Information.

SABRA LANE, HOST: Minister, thanks for joining AM.

MICHELLE ROWLAND, ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Pleasure.

LANE: This is already being dubbed a ‘truth tax’. Why are you making it harder to get information about how governments work?

ROWLAND: Well, as a starting point, of course, Sabra, Freedom of Information is a really fundamental feature of our democracy. It promotes accountability and transparency in government decision-making.

But you won't find a stakeholder who will say that the Freedom of Information regime in Australia is working as it should. Part of that is due to a number of factors, including the capability to make anonymous applications, the fact that you can have multiple vexatious or otherwise frivolous FOI applications, which are tying up the time of taxpayers and scarce government resources.

What we are proposing here is to address some of those shortcomings, and I would point out that there is currently a charging regime in the Freedom of Information Act, and every state and territory, bar the ACT, actually imposes a modest application fee of somewhere between $30 and the mid-50s for people seeking to make FOI applications. So, this is indeed consistent with practise that goes on in other parts of Australia, and it is designed to make sure that we can prioritise genuine FOI requests and make sure that we most expeditiously spend taxpayers' money.

LANE: Anthony Albanese previously argued for more disclosure. He said, quote, “we need a culture of disclosure. The current delays, obstacles, costs, exemptions make it easier for the government to hide information from the public. That is just not right”. He said that in 2019. That quote is just as relevant today.

ROWLAND: Well, we took to the last election a platform of delivery that we made during our first term when it comes to transparency and accountability in everything from the establishment of the NACC to reform of the Administrative Review Tribunal. We are not a government that has secret ministries. We are indeed a proper functioning Cabinet government of this Prime Minister. To make it very clear, the Bill that I will introduce today does seek to clarify a number of instances where it is unclear about the scope of various exemptions and the ability to obtain information. So, this is about making this clearer.

One thing I will say is that, as we found out through Robodebt, which was another example of a lack of transparency which costs people lives under the previous government, just labelling something Cabinet in Confidence does not make it so, and we intend to enshrine that in this law.

LANE: So how much will it cost to make an application?

ROWLAND: Well, as I said, the rates that are around in states and territories are somewhere between $30 and the mid-50s for an application. We would propose that these be set out in regulations and disallowable, and also that where there are specific hardship provisions, that there is the capacity to waive them. But I'll make this very important point for your listeners, Sabra, some 70%, over 70% of FOI requests are from individuals seeking access to their own personal information. They will specifically be exempt from any application charge.

LANE: At a time when trust with politicians and is under challenge, it's counterintuitive, isn't it, that you're trying to put more information out of the public's reach?

ROWLAND: Well, I disagree with that presumption. The fact is here that the Freedom of Information regime is dated 1982 and it is stuck in the 1980s at a time before we even contemplated artificial intelligence, before we had some government departments having over a billion documents in their systems.

It is costing taxpayers, in 2023-24, for example, $86 million to deal with processing, around a million hours taken in doing that. That is important, but let me tell your listeners this, Sabra, we've had cases where FOI requests have been generated, sometimes around 600 of them in one instance, going to a small agency, which tied up the services of that agency for over two months. Now, you might think that's not important but let me tell you what that agency was. That was eSafety. That is an organisation responsible for ensuring the safety, particularly of young people, online, getting tied up doing 600 frivolous FOI requests that they are required by law to deal with. This kind of mismanagement, this kind of exploitation of these systems needs to be reined in. We need to prioritise genuine applications, and we need to make sure that the FOI system is fit for purpose.

LANE: Well, the case hasn't been made. So far, The Liberals and the Greens say they will oppose it. So, this is not going to get through the Senate. You'll have to change it or abandon it.

ROWLAND: Well, let's be very clear. We intend to bring this forward to the Parliament.

LANE: It's doomed then, based on that alone. The numbers are the numbers, and they're saying they're going to vote against it.

ROWLAND: Well, Sabra, politics is the art of the possible. The reality here is we are going to refer this a Senate Committee for debate and ventilation. These are important reforms, and the fact is, as I said, no one who deals with the FOI system thinks that it's working properly. It is time for reform. Again, we will put this forward, cases will be made, and we, as a government, are saying that this is an area where taxpayers and where genuine FOI applicants need to be prioritised in a system that is stuck in the 1980s.

So, I look forward to a fulsome debate on this. Again, I just ask, as I have with everyone I've briefed on this, including the crossbench, that they keep an open mind, that they understand the way in which this is impacting not only on individuals, but also on public servants. This is an area where I've also offered briefings from the Public Service Commissioner. The kind of vexatious complaints, applications that are made that go to, for example, sometimes sexually explicit and threatening, using the FOI system in ways for which it wasn't intended, these need to be addressed.

LANE: Minister, thanks for your time this morning.

ROWLAND: Pleasure.

[ENDS]